My parents divorced when I was very young,and they were young parents. I therefore had young grandparents. They kept me every other weekend and for weeks at the time during the summer for as long as I remember. I truely thank my mother for allowing that, she didn't have to. My grandfather was an Assembly of God minister until retirement age about two years ago. They truely raised me to just have a relationship with Jesus,thats just that simple. Around thirteen or so I backslid big time. My mother isn't saved and its difficult to keep your feet on the path at that age. I also married an athiest. We had a child and I truely sought the Lord. I read my Bible when he wasn' thome as it irked him,and I didn't even try the church thing. I just kept praying,listening to preaching on tape or t.v. Then something marvelous happened. He worked out of town and he came home saved! He'd been to a revival at an AOG church somewhere in the middle of a field in Lousiana. He came home with a Bible under his arm and was truely a different man. Imagine my relief! We already homeschooled ect. Not alot of lifestyle changed, we've never been partiers or drinkers. But our spiritual life bloomed. We were talking about the Bible and it was so exciting. What about this or that...1 Cor. 11:6 does that mean not to cut your hair or to cover your actual head, does it mean to have long hair..or that if ye be contentious it isnt' for our day? We really poured over the word. We were going to an AOG church,but it wasn't home. Before long we started looking for somewhere a little more uhmmmmm hardcore lol. Somewhere they weren't just preaching the promises of the Word but the obedience too. We'd bought our house from a man who was apostolic and through that met his wife and her friends. About the same time my husband ran into the Pastors daughter in law. The Pastor came to our house and stayed a very long time. Next thing ya know, we are attending this Apostolic Church. Nothing at that time felt legalistic at all. You just want to please God. I enjoyed the changes we could make because before my husbands salvation I didn't have the ability to make any at all. I remember being in a church service and feeling terrible convicted about my tongue ring, so I went into the bathroom and took it out. It was such a relief off my shoulders, and I prayed through that night because that obstacle was gone. I do believe in a standard of living, dressing and behaving. The difference is when that becomes a legalism and you think your gonna get to heaven faster. so ..what the UPC believes is
They do not believe they are a denomination, or a religion. They preach what they consider the Apostles doctrine and not "post reformation theology" They disput the exsistance of the trinity. Now I personally have figured out that the real issue here is a lack of communication. The upci and the aog split from each other over this issue in the early 1900s and they haven't stopped debating and bickering since. An Apostolic believes Jesus is God manifest flesh. Yeah, the Bible says that. They assert that trinitarians believe in three seperate bodily Gods. I never believed that. God was a Spirit and hovered over the water, Jesus said when you've seen me you've seen the father. The Holy Spirit obviously has no body so when I get to heaven Yeah Jesus is what I expect to see. 1 John says "these three are one" and most folks agree with that. Aposotlics want to argue over this word "trinity' as they say it isnt' in the Bible. Uhm neither is rapture but I'm planning to go. I really think its something to fuss over. Great are the mysteries of Godliness. The other issue is baptism. We get called Jesus only alot. That isn't true as that implies that we don't believe in God or the Holy Ghost. Its more like Jesus everything. I do believe in a Jesus name baptism. Acts 2:38. I just think that Apostolics belabor this to death, ingnoring the thief on the cross wasn't baptised and they make it all about salvation rather than obedience. This annoys me to no end. Its Acts 2:38 all the time, and no real word just fussing over what we say when we dunk you. I believe it because nowhere do you find anyone actually baptized in any name other than Jesus. Read through Acts. "What soever ye do in word or deed " I know in Matthew it says "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost." But those are titles not names. I am a mother,daughter,wife, I can't write any of those titles or relationships on a check and cash it. diagram that sentence and you'll be left wondering what that name is and its Jesus. So thats a point I'll agree with the UPC on, I just don't think you go to hell if you dont "do it right" God honors the intents of our hearts. The next issue is the Holy Ghost. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by the utterance of other tongues. They say no tongues no heaven. Thats just the dumbest thing ever! Its always annoyed me. I assert that the indwelling of the Holy Ghost happens the instant you accept Jesus and the baptism of the Holy Ghost and with fire as the Spirit gives utterance are two different works. To say you have to speak in tongues to get to heaven ingnores everything Paul has to say about how the gifts of the Spirit work. It means ONLY UPC folk will get to heaven and it puts an enormous pressure on them to prove they got it. Hence, some faking goin' on. So there is a three step salvation here. Repent, be baptized, speak in tongues. Uhmm yeah, I don't buy it. I was in that church 5 years and never bought it. My kids don't buy it, thanks to homeschooling they get a BIG dose of Bible each day. I am thankful that I have my grandparents, alot of this stuff didn't sink into my head because of them. However, I have repented,been baptized in Jesus name and spoke in tongues. So you'd think "Hey I'm safe either way , why split hairs" I should have split hairs cause wrong theology is wrong theology! I was lazy.
Standards. The UPCI wholeheartedly disapproves of folks participating in worldly amusements like the movie theater, dances, mixed swimming, and until the General Conference last year they disapproved of telelvision sets in the home. For the record my family has always done all of these things. Standards of dress were never preached in our church , they are in many and are presented as hellfire issues. Our church was much much more subtle. When you get there some nice sister will immediately offer you a home Bible study. Your family will go to their house eat dessert and do a Bible study. This perfect sister will of course have perfect standards and be the paragon of all that is pure and holy in the world and before long...you are that sister. the only enforced standards in our church are "platform standards" to be on the platform for any reason you have to sign a standards agreement. This says you won't wear pants, jewerly (except a wedding right although thats frowned on too)cut your hair, wear make up go to the theater and so on. Your sleeves must be to the elbow..which I really think is smart. Anyshorter and sister on the plat form does a Hallejuah raises her arm and you see all down her baggy short sleeve. So that I get. And dresses below the knee as to not flash the congregation while you sit in a choir loft. These I think are smart and just make sense and they don't apply to your whole life. Just church services. The hair cutting thing, first off somebody is sure to give you a book called Power before the Throne by Ruth Harvey. We could talk all night about 1 Cor 6:11. So I'll leave each to his own thoughts on this one. I decided I am contentious and I trimmed the funky ends off of my hair. It was hip length all one length very heavy and getting raggedy. I didn't really lose length, just got layers. But cut is cut.This was a very difficult decision to make. Make up. I dunno any scriptural reason for this. Folks talk about Jezebel, and Egypt and all kinds of mess. Jezebel did wear make up and jewerly. So did the Isrealites. She brushed her hair too and I never quit that. I stopped wearing make up simply out of relief of not having to do it! Also after a while it feels just wierd to be the only one with make up on. This is also the first thing I put back on. I dont have a real conviction about this. Dresses only,first Deut. not wearing that which pertains to a man. We could argue that to death too about customs and times and such. Then are dresses more modest? I think so. The Bible says to be set apart and a peculiar people. If I were walking down the road could you immediately identify me as a Christian? I think so. I don't intend to wear pants anytime in the near future out in public. I do wear them to the gym. I also don't think your gonna burn in hell and need repentence if your clothing of choice is jeans. Jewerly. it says not to let your adornment be gold or pearls...ect. I believe the UPC is taking this out of context. Just because I wear my wedding ring does NOT mean that I dont have a meek and quiet spirit. This is about pride not jewerly. They are big on not being vain, or prideful hence the no jewerly. I have always had a nosering. The pastor called and talked to me about Jacob and Rachel and how they and all their people with them took all their jewerly, and noserings were mentioned specifically and they buried them under the tree at Mamere as idols. I decided I dont think my nosering is an idol. Its just there, theres a big hole under it so I keep it. Its part of my face. I countered by saying when they set for a wife for Isaac and found Rebekah by the well, they put bracelets on her wrists and a ring in her nose and took her for a wife. He preached a few services about obedience being better than sacrafice and then he gave up. That nosering meant that I could never volunteer in sundayschool or teach a ladies Bible study. It also irked the heck out of the preacher. Theres prob some stuff in here I forgot to mention. Uhmmmm, laying on of hands , annointing with oil to pray for healing, dancing in the spirit,foot washing (once a year) all things the UPC believes and so do I. They like to decide who is saved and who isn't. My grandmother is the most Godly woman I know. She is fond of the jewerly and make up. This kept me from buying into the standards are salvational stuff. But it didn't keep me from living them. I believe that most people in those churches are sincere, they have good prayer lives, fast and repent like crazy. I'd consider them "saved" if it was up to me. Its unfortunate that they can't see that I am saved too. Everything you do unto God, God appreciates 1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Romans 14.
This got long and rambly lol.
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Thanks for sharing all of this. I had to cut my reading in halves....cuz I had to tend to the children.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, sounds like alot of bondage.
My belief is that when you believe Jesus is the son of God you have eternal life and are saved. I believe then you have been made just like Jesus. Your spirit is like Jesus. You are one in Christ. Your spirit is born again and like the Lord. You have the fruit of the spirit already and you are seen as righteous without sin unto the Lord.
This is the "real you". If Jesus came today I believe you, me, and all those who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God will go to heaven. I believe baptism as a symbolic representation of death....but I also believe something supernatural takes place when this baptism occurs. I am still learning about this and asking God to reveal more of the truth of baptism.
I believe that to have power and God's fullness we must receive the Holy Spirit. I do speak in tounges and I am a big believer in speaking in tounges but if a sister or brother doesn't, this doesn't mean they don't have Holy Spirit. I do believe that they are expecting for Holy spirit to just come to them and overtake their body. I believe brothers and sisters need to receive tounges just the same as receiving Christ....by faith. Just open your mouth and start talking. Whatever comes out receive it as the holy spirit. You know what I mean? We make stuff to complicated sometimes.
As far as our soul and body, I believe that if we don't renew our minds in the word on a daily basis we will not understand the spirit of Christ. We will walk in sins of the flesh and allow satan to have a door into our soul, not our Spirit...this is saved by Jesus already. This is where sin comes into play. No, our spirit is not sinful. It is as clean and white as snow, but our soul and body are sinful. These two (soul and body) is what we need to bring under the submission of christ. How do we do this....by renewing our minds by reading the word and learning from the Lord. He will then change our thoughts and then conviction of sin will come. Then by "walking in the Spirit" , We will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. But we first need to understand who we are in christ before trying to change the outward man (soul and body). Many christians try to do the opposite....change the outward to have a clean spirit.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Continued....
As far as dresses and long hair. There was a time, that I thought if I looked a certain way that it would make me "more holy". If I wore less make-up and no jeans and yes, have lots of children...then I was doing the more righteous thing.
ReplyDeleteI believe that God has a calling for each one of His children and when we seek Him and get to know Him and he will reveal His perfect will for our lives. When we are so flesh focus and trying to "live pure" we are missing this whole Christian faith. It isn't about the outward appearance it's about a relationship with Christ.
I've been to homeschool meetings where women have many children, wear long skirts or dresses, have no make-up on, have long hair, and are very soft spoken. In the past. when I've been around them I personally have felt like they were judging me for wearing my jeans, t shirt that is a bit tight fitting, make-up and smelling like a flower.
I felt like an unbeliever around them but not realizing I knew God also. I also have done this in my own church with other women. I have eight children and have found myself "judging" women for not being quiverful. Which I don't agree totally with this doctrine. I have my own thoughts of this "law" as well.
It all goes down with seeking God and doing what He is asking you to do. If it's have eight children and then no more, or wearing skirts, or whatever it is, we should never fit into a mold. Who knows....God might call someone to have a nose ring, with eight children, and dresses only. Right? We need to always be checking our heart as far as judging others less holy or more.
In the spirit we are all the same. We are all made clean, and righteous before God. And the only way to clean up our soul and body is to let the Lord do it through His word and convict each one indiviually.
I hope I made sense to all I was trying to relay. I could go on. But I have to get busy with chores and the kids. It was great sharing with you what I believe and vice versa. By the way,.... I think it's rather cool you have a nose ring.
Chris
By the way.....If you ever want to get in touch with me by email go to my blog and get it from there.
ReplyDeleteLater.
Chris
Cool I'll do that. I don't disagree with ANYTHING you said here. Each to his own convictions is pretty much my feeling. I agree that I have issues with the quiverfull movement..my constant miscarriages for starts. The idea that children are an obligation,not just a blessing. Like dresses is an obligation and not just something you think pleases God. Anything gets icky when it gets legalistic. I have been to those conferences. Actually until a bit ago one of my bestfriends was one of those moms with 8 kids, very soft spoken and always wore the "homeschool marm' uniform lol. I have never been able to swing that softspoken thing lol.
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